Plug-In Hybrids Are Not What You Think They Are | Talking Cars with Consumer Reports #429

Driving a PHEV isn’t as complicated as CR wants people to believe. We own a gen 2 Volt and a RAV4 Prime. Never any range anxiety and mostly EV driving. These vehicles are amazing. Chevy should have kept the Volt alive.

CR makes this seem complicated. It's actually simple. I've had a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime PHEV for more than two years now. I love it. I use electric in town. I buy gasoline when I go out of town. PHEVs are for everyone.

If I am reading the spreadsheet correctly, there was a fundamental error (which may affect the choices) in that electricity in Saskatchewan is C$0.15¢/KWhr. Jake has converted this to US$20.25¢/KWHr, which is the "wrong" way. That is, 15¢ Canadian is more like US11¢/KWhr . Then this error is repeated with the gas price calculation - a litre of gas in SK is is about C$1.80. That's ~US$1.32. There are about 3.8L in a US gallon, so the price per US gallon of gas in Sask is about US$5.28 - nowhere near what Jake calculated and further muddying the waters. It may be that the same mistake applied to both factors evens out, but I'd want to rerun the numbers. Hopefully someone at CR will notice It's an easy mistake to make (Google will try and do it wrong for you) but obvious to any Canadian viewer (the CDN$ is typically 75% of the US$ in value). While gas is expensive in Canada (compared to the USA) electricity tends to be less expensive (obviously varies by location). And BTW Mike - it is pronounced Re-JEYE-na :-)

Bought a RAV4 Prime last year. Thought about going full EV, but didn't feel the infrastructure is quite there yet to support them everywhere. It has been a great vehicle so far. (And it is quick!) Driving it in the city for daily local commutes or just tooling around town, I use practically no gas. As long as my daily usage is under ~ 45 miles. Which is 98% of the time. But then my family enjoys (very) long road trips and it gives me piece of mind that I can just operate it as a regular Hybrid on those trips. Pulling over at Any gas station, Anywhere and be fully fueled in less than 5 minutes. (Out in the sticks, there aren't very many charging stations.) At this time, I think PHEVs are the best of both worlds for some people. Certainly for my usage.

how to make something quite simple sound complicated and draging it out for 35 minutes

You make it sound very complicated and confusing. It's a hybrid with a bigger battery that you can charge by plugging it in. We plug ours into a regular outlet on our garage. With the amount of driving we do, we seldom burn any gas. When we take a long trip, we treat it as a hybrid. And when you talk about waste, think about the giant batteries in most EVs with capacity that's never used. That's a lot of weight to carry around, a lot of resources wasted.

I found driving was not complicated, just let the car do it’s thing and switch modes as necessary. Don’t bother worrying about plugging in on a trip, just drive. What I found incredibly complicated was what charger to use at home and what electrical work was needed. The Logistics of outlet placement, cable length and what level charger was a challenge. I eventually realized that we did not really need anything more than a level 1 charger and most importantly that there are better level 1 chargers with longer cables than what the dealer gives you. Just by purchasing an after market charger/cable made a 30 percent faster charge with a 4 foot longer cable.

A PHEV is not really that complicated. When I drive the Clarity, I really enjoy the whole "let's see what this thing can do" puzzle. My wife on the other hand is just a, "turn it on and go" type of person. They work perfectly fine either way. So if you are deciding about one, leave all this nonsense on the table and know all you have to do is plug it in and drive it like a normal car. Because of the bigger battery, efficiency can be slightly greater because if there is a big dynamic charging event, the battery is big enough to absorb all of it. If you are a nerd and want many things to play with, they are there for you also. Quite frankly though, you may be able to squeeze another 5% out of it, not worth it to my wife, but quite enjoyable to me. I also only change the oil every 2 years because it only burns about 10 gallons of gas per year, so maintenance, while still there, is considerably less than a strait gas car and is still less than a hybrid.

I owned a gen1 volt from 2012 to 2017. I changed it due to seating comfort and related issues for long drives. After 70k miles and five years, I used gas only for about 5% of the miles. Visted dealer only two times for oil change. Total service costs under $200. Great car. PHEVs are a great choice for most people.

As a somewhat frequent car renter, I'm really frustrated by rental car agencies who have embraced EV rentals, but for decades now, basically ignored hybrids in their fleets. On a recent trip to the southwest, we flew into Las Vegas where we could have had our pick of a dozen EVs, but with lots of driving to National Parks as part of the plan, and hundreds of miles driving on desert highways, we just couldn't risk not having a place to charge. But if there were a traditional hybrid, the gas savings would have been spectacular.

After a ton of research, I decided I wanted a RAV4 Prime (to replace my 2008 Outback), and I spent two years trying to find one without a huge markup (they're not sold in Washington state where I live). I also looked at the KIA Sportage PHEV which is sold in my state. I live on a small island in a condominium with only one allotted parking space. I wanted all electric for my short island drives, but I also wanted a vehicle large enough for car camping and off the beaten path road trips (including the potential to sleep in the car). In an ideal world, with the luxury of owning two parking spaces, I would have gotten an old Leaf for my local drives and a hybrid for the camping trips. The RAV4 Prime is over-priced, but I view it as owning two vehicles in one, with the reliability and resale value of the Toyota brand. I finally bought a used RAV4 Prime in July and I love it!

I had a 2g Volt and I loved it. And as an engineer I was amazed at how sophisticated it was and how seamlessly it could manage the power. However, my daily commute was 54 miles and it could only do it in non-winter. So instead of "range anxiety" I had "dont let the engine come on anxiety" and I did a lot of planning to find the optimum time to run the engine (usually first thing on cold days so I could get heat for "free"). And I hated carrying all that stuff around with me and almost never needing it; and it took up a lot of room. So I sold it and got a Bolt. Not as fun a car but way more practical. But the Volt was the "maximum" electric-like PHEV you could get. It IS an electric car, just with a 2010-sized battery and an engine to provide electricity when you exceed 53 miles.

I’ve owned my RAV4 Prime XSE for 2 1/2 years. In that time I’ve accrued 50,000 miles; 60% electric. 40% gasoline. The gasoline engine, which most often is used on the highway, has averaged 38 mpg. Acceleration is phenomenal. The AWD works well especially since I installed Michelin Cross Climate 2 tires a year ago. If you pay attention and drive as this auto was designed the results will make you a believer. It has my wife who at first was very skeptical.

A couple of observations: You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Buy a PHEV if your normal use profile fits with what they are good at. Most people are not going to try to optimize every trip, and will leave the car in its automatic setting, where it will mix and max the power trains to provide the best result. In that setting, full power will always come on if you floor it. BEV's are not difficult to charge, and only delay the start of charge when the owner sets it that way. If you have a level 2 charger, plug it in after the last trip of the day, unplug it when you start the first trip. You can set it for off-peak charging if you want. Road tripping a Tesla is not an anxiety producing event. It's quite simple, the car tells you when to charge and routes you to the charger. No looking at a cell phone. Tesla public chargers are 99% reliable. You will usually go from10% to 80% in 20 minutes. There are many reasons to have a larger battery, than you need for day to day use. Get as much range as you can afford.

I see the attraction of plug-in hybrids is for those who take long trips. For me, a long trip in an EV is currently affected by the relative scarcity and time waiting at charging stations. A plug-in hybrid doesn’t have that issue. Additionally, there are the benefits the reviewers mention (especially using electric only for shorter commuting and errands).

Here in Alaska, my Rav4 Prime is the perfect car - and I almost never plug it in. In the dead of winter, my 2 mile drive to work every day would be hell on any ICE-only car. (Short trips and never warming the engine up) I just use electric. Milage per KWH is as expected in cold. Couple 2 or 3 days a week after work - and weekends I hit the gym about 20 minutes away - so I use Charge mode maybe once or twice per week. Warm the engine up nice, and put EV miles in the coffer for the week's short trips to & from work. The car's heat pump heating is inefective on a lot of colder days and would otherwise force an engine start so my fix is to use my little 400W fan heater instead. Gotta love that nice 120v 1500 watt AC outlet. Summer time if I'm stuck following someone on a dry dusty gravel road I go EV and avoid packing the ICE's air filter full of crap. When I need to pass, this thing just teleports me in front and I'm on my way again. Longer roadtrips like Anchorage, or to "the States", I enjoy some "energy management" tasks to stay engaged, and the geek in me LOVES it.

The Volt was a complicated system but mine worked fine for the 11 years I owned it. It got great mileage, was wonderful to drive (the final drive was electric so it was like driving something special). Complicated yes, but IT WORKED! If it was not reliable or was in the shop all the time, a complicated car is a problem. But the Volt was carefully executed. I experienced no battery degradation over 11 years - GM really understood what needed to keep the battery happy which is the key. I miss it terribly.

This may be a short-term issue, but I think you also have to consider price and availability when selecting a PHEV. When I first started looking, around 18 months ago, the PHEV concept sounded great for my typical use, so I started shopping. What an eye opener! I learned a number of things. First of all, manufacturers don't always offer PHEVs in all states. They seem to focus more on the "blue" states. The cars sellout fast, so good luck finding one, and if you do, be prepared to pay a big dealer add-on. When I first started looking, dealers were tacking $10k on top of the MSRP for the RAV4. Are you effing kidding me?! Sorry, just can't do it. I decided to wait. I finally gave in last month and bought a 2024 Hyundai Tucson PHEV. I still paid MSRP, which is more than I wanted to pay, but I was able to buy it off the lot. Maybe price and availability are becoming more reasonable now. So far, I'm very pleased with the Tucson.

Drove a Model Y for 3 months a couple of years ago, bought a used RAV4 Prime recently and absolutely love the Prime. in the first 2 weeks I drove about a mile in hybrid mode. It fits my typical driving perfectly and is so easy to deal with in terms of plugging in to a normal outlet etc.

I don't understand why they can't do a straight EV with an easily/detachable attachable generator. No extra drivetrain. They could put less battery capacity in it to lower weight and you could add the generator when you need to take a long trip. If the car sees the trip is going to be 500 plus miles it could start the gennie and keep it running even when the car is stopped for food or bathroom breaks. If consumption outstrips demand say with big loads or high speeds, you might eventually need to stop at a supercharger to top off, but for most long distance trips EV with the generator topping off the batteries should keep everything rolling. It could run all night if you are at a campsite or offgrid if need be. Batteries would be charged when you wake up. The gennie could be removed from the car and save weight / increase frunk space if the day to day requirements are just around 40 miles of EV with charging at night. That's my kind of EV/hybrid!⛰🌎