Is historical wargaming elitist

As an enthusiast of both Warhammer and historicals, I would like to apologise on behalf of the numpty in the shop. I would also like to say that every genre of wargame has its elitist crowds and not every group that say they are open and welcoming are in fact open and welcoming.

For every Napoleonic button counter pontificating on the suitability of that particular lace at Wagram, there must be 100 gatekeepers of a certain game getting their knickers in a twist over lady space marines. Unpleasant pedants are everywhere.

I imagine the shop clerks idea of an "elitist" is someone who is not interested in the games they have to offer. What is actually down to personal preferences, can be construed by some as being a snob or looking down on others. Ironically, the clerk was being elitist himself by writing off players of another genera different than his own.

I play Bolt Action and love the WW2 history, I also play occasionally 40K and love the background fluff. For me however it comes down to price and 40K is smegging expensive to get in to and Bolt Action is pretty reasonable to buy a starter army for the same price as a single vehicle model from 40K

I've found the single genre players more elitist than the multi-genre players. I'm sure it is the former type that the shop assistant was thinking of. And, yes, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black where his company is concerned. Having said that, my trips to buy their paints usually are pleasant exchanges when I tell them what I am painting, Short, but pleasant.

Nice discussion point, Lee, and of course I’m grinning because clearly, that person in the store had no idea that ALL the founders of Games Workshop were—and still are—historical wargamers too! You should point them at my interviews with Rick P, the Perry twins, Alessio Cavatore… And as has been said by others, there are ‘gatekeepers’ on both sides of the (really non-existent) divide.

Hi Lee; huge topic this. Being on the far side of the world, it has been my experience from shows in particular, that the 'Dark Side' gamers are the ones who refuse to engage with anyone not into their genre to the point of rudeness, while the historical gamers are the ones who will go out of their way to engage with all & sundry to try & infect them with their love of the game. It all boils down to whether one is into multiple facets of wargaming or single minded with tunnel vision.

Before I learned of Warhammer (fantasy or 40K) I learned about wargaming from a second-cousin/uncle of mine. He has a Napoleonic Army and Zulus. I once asked him about Warhammer that was advertised in one of his books he let me read and he said: "It's also a wargame but you can't take it seriously!" Hehe, I put that down to him being older is all! I now play Warhammer Fantasy. I must say, I have had a few games with my uncle and enjoyed it thoroughly - it's fantastic how long the games take. He stays in another province so I've not played often unfortunately.

It's certainly a bit of the coffee calling the kettle black there on that one (if it is the chain of shops I'm thinking of). I may get hate for this but I don't think he's 100% wrong however. In the last 2 year I've been moving away from sci-fi gaming due to the elitist nature of that crowd I've encountered, where you have to play with that companies official models or you can't play in tournaments, you have to play the most recent edition or you can't play, you have to play with the most recent rules updates or you can't play. Basically unless you're buying the most recent product you just can't play. And I'm at a point in my life (early 30's) where I want things to slow down. But equally getting into historical wargaming as someone who is younger I've definitely felt a bit of isolation and elitism finding groups as I don't fit into the majority of players in my area (mainly due being several decades younger and having quite different life experiences from most historical wargamers I've met). I know that the outward attitude of both groups is 'everyone is welcome to come and join' and that is great but it's still difficult to break into that when what's actually being said is 'everyone is welcome to join so long as you join on our terms'.

The hobby as a whole I don't see as elitist, but there is a sizeable section, in my experience, that look down on fantasy or sci-fi and specifically anything to do with a certain high street games store. I am happy gaming across many genres and time periods. Not everybody is, but there is no reason to cock a snook at another person's gaming choice to their face. I encountered that attitude when first visiting the local club. The members were happy playing their own games and were not very welcoming. Eventually, the more eclectic gamers started another night that became more popular and led to an expansion of the club.

Very entertaining and well reasoned video. I've had the same experience on the few occasions I've been in the same stores. Once they know they can't sting you for their latest incarnation of the same thing they've been churning out they have no interest in engaging with you. Shame really and I find it's the hard core gamers from that part of the hobby that are the real elitists.

I play historicals and fantasy, and historical gamers tend to be way more laid back. It helps being in my 40s and most of them are in their 70s and 80s who are super excited to see "young people" getting involved. I love picking their brains about arcane historical facts. Hopefully, I will be that guy some day. lol

I am grateful to GW as in my late 30's I got into wargaming when my son was playing 40K. Always had an interest but not done anything about it. Then, I moved on to play historicals and never looked back. My experience is that historical players are keen to share their knowledge and encourage people to have a go. I think some GW staff fear losing customers to other systems due the price difference.

I play both fantasy sci fi and historical and I just wanted to say: What a lovely video.

I feel historical gaming is the most affordable form of tabletop gaming. From rules to figures. The fact that you cannot play in the “high street” store with anything but their product line says it all.

When I first read your title I thought, what on earth is this all about?! Now I've listened to your video, I can completely see why you felt the need to upload a video like this. It's funny, when I grew up in Leicester and played at the GW store, I always felt intimidated and that the workers/players were very elitist, almost like a boys club ... outsiders just ruined the fun. Granted I was 14 and only wanted to play LOTR on very little money. Fast forward 16 years and only playing historical wargaming, I very rarely feel that. Does that mean we don't have some elitist in our community? Absolutely not, you get them no matter what end of the wargaming scale you play. I think some people just have a real chip on their shoulder but for every one of those, there is normally a great handful that don't and simply play for the fun of it. I generally find that most historical wargamers are playing because they love history and don't care if they win but just want to share stories of whatever period they play. Great video mate and it really got me thinking.

As someone with a foot in both camps (Warhammer and Historical Gaming) I understand where the assumption has come from however it is incorrect. I have found that the Gatekeepers shout a lot but are definitely a small minority of both sides. I think both sides have been very open, welcoming, helpful and encouraging of the hobby and I like to take my love of History into my 40k world and my love of the uniqueness that you can create from 40k into my historical armies.

Back in the day, I think I was in my late 20's, I was a young guy with a serious history addiction and I was in this Yahoo group on the LaceWars - Age of Enlightenment, 17th to 18th Century Wars. At the start people were friendly and I was just commenting here and there on topics and for some reason - I don't know if it was because I was asking for help finding Order of Battle information or something, some of these older researchers/wargamers suddenly became very hostile to me. They were like "we spent YEARS researching this stuff and you want us to just hand it over" - like what you said. Still remember one of them, the go to guy on the Great Northern Wars, Dan Schorr. Schorr was a real jerk to me. I soon left that forum, but it became just one more reason I came to distance myself from and hate being close to other people. I called them out of course, said that if they were a33holes to younger gamers and researchers then their stupid hobby would die a well deserved death and good riddance to them. Dan Schorr apparently died in 2021. I'm not sorry that he died. He was a real d1ck toward me and he didn't care at all. Since then I've become a historical researcher and commentator in my own right and in my own niche. I still love the LaceWars passionately. And I hope that I do more to ENCOURAGE younger people through positive interactions than drive them away by being a selfish jerk that's more concerned with hoarding knowledge than sharing it.

I think there maybe an element of perception, UK side of things many gamers start with a GW Warhammer AoS or 40k. After a while they discover other wargames and a lot of them are more engaging but still simple rules systems. Bolt Action, Saga, Rampant series, Warlords Black Powder and various Ospreys in high st stores. Suddenly a historical gamer enjoying the games more stops playing Warhammer for a historical game. I suspect with a bit more of a conversation that the guy in the store had an experience of a long term friend Warhammer player, now playing only the other games because he's enjoying them more and it was a personal response arising from that he no longer gets to play with his friend. Due to the constant edition creep there;s been a few youtubers droping Warhammer for alternatives for the past year or two and whilst GW is in no danger I think will be a trend to continue.

There those types (elitists) in every group of enthusiasts. Very unfortunate you were treated that way at an "Upper East Midlands Corporation" store. Obviously, he hasn't looked at some of their competitive players. I should know, I worked for the bloody company for 8 long years! I'd say that was a lot calling the kettle black situation since they call their entire game collection a "hobby" unto itself and separate from the rest of the miniature wargaming hobby in general! If that's not elitist, I don't know what is!