Dr. MAXWELL RAMSTEAD - The Physics of Survival

Published 2023-07-15
Equilibrium and Existence!

Patreon: www.patreon.com/mlst
Discord: discord.gg/ESrGqhf5CB

Join us for a fascinating discussion of the free energy principle with Dr. Maxwell Ramstead, a leading thinker exploring the intersection of math, physics, and philosophy and Director of Research at VERSES. The FEP was proposed by renowned neuroscientist Karl Friston, this principle offers a unifying theory explaining how systems maintain order and their identity.

The free energy principle inverts traditional survival logic. Rather than asking what behaviors promote survival, it queries - given things exist, what must they do? The answer: minimizing free energy, or "surprise." Systems persist by constantly ensuring their internal states match anticipated states based on a model of the world. Failure to minimize surprise leads to chaos as systems dissolve into disorder.

Thus, the free energy principle elucidates why lifeforms relentlessly model and predict their surroundings. It is an existential imperative counterbalancing entropy. Essentially, this principle describes the mind's pursuit of harmony between expectations and reality. Its relevance spans from cells to societies, underlying order wherever longevity is found.

Our discussion explores the technical details and philosophical implications of this paradigm-shifting theory. How does it further our understanding of cognition and intelligence? What insights does it offer about the fundamental patterns and properties of existence? Can it precipitate breakthroughs in disciplines like neuroscience and artificial intelligence?

Dr. Ramstead completed his Ph.D. at McGill University in Montreal, Canada in 2019, with frequent research visits to UCL in London, under the supervision of the world’s most cited neuroscientist, Professor Karl Friston (UCL).

Pod: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstr…

scholar.google.ca/citations?user=ILpGOMkAAAAJ&hl=f…
spatialwebfoundation.org/team/maxwell-ramstead/
www.linkedin.com/in/maxwell-ramstead-43a1991b7/
twitter.com/mjdramstead

VERSES AI: www.verses.ai/

Intro: Tim Scarfe (Ph.D)
Interviewer: Keith Duggar (Ph.D MIT)

TOC:
00:00:00 - Intro and philosophy
00:06:16 - Intro to Maxwell
00:09:50 - FEP
00:20:58 - Markov Blankets
00:43:05 - Verses AI / Applications of FEP
00:57:45 - Potential issues with deploying FEP
01:02:40 - Shared knowledge graphs
01:06:19 - XRisk / Ethics
01:16:47 - Strength of Verses
01:20:20 - Misconceptions about FEP, Physics vs philosophy/criticism
01:36:31 - Emergence / consciousness

References:
Principia Mathematica
www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=305672…

Andy Clark's paper "Whatever Next? Predictive Brains, Situated Agents, and the Future of Cognitive Science" (Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 2013)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23663408/

"Math Does Not Represent" by Erik Curiel
   • "Math Does Not Represent" by Erik Curiel  

A free energy principle for generic quantum systems (Chris Fields et al)
arxiv.org/pdf/2112.15242.pdf

Designing explainable artificial intelligence with active inference
arxiv.org/abs/2306.04025

Am I Self-Conscious? (Friston)
www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00…

The Meta-Problem of Consciousness
philarchive.org/archive/CHATMO-32v1

The Map-Territory Fallacy Fallacy
arxiv.org/abs/2208.06924

A Technical Critique of Some Parts of the Free Energy Principle - Martin Biehl et al
arxiv.org/abs/2001.06408

WEAK MARKOV BLANKETS IN HIGH-DIMENSIONAL, SPARSELY-COUPLED RANDOM DYNAMICAL SYSTEMS - DALTON A R SAKTHIVADIVEL
arxiv.org/pdf/2207.07620.pdf

All Comments (21)
  • @BrianMosleyUK
    I didn't get this the first viewing, making more sense second time around. One of the few long form channels I'll enjoy watching again. 🙏👍
  • @rezamirkhani4747
    Thanks for the delightful treat you have prepared this Sunday ❤
  • @MMMM-sv1lk
    The whole part trying to explain the FEP could be better summarized by a musical concept - Harmony. Things that exist together must harmonize. That's what representing a part of the outside systen in your system means. Or so I would propose.
  • Great video - Thanks MLST! A multi domain consolidation point, a useful framework with associated terminology, tools and standards to enable the creation of complex, context understanding systems that are transparent !
  • @pauloabelha
    Piaget was trying through Genetic Epistemology to bridge the gap from physics through biology to intelligent agents. A single epistemological framework that would unite emergent proprieties and explain how knowledge, agency and concepts can form that relate back to Reality. The FEP might just be the basis for such a neo-Materialism through a natural epistemology, where knowledge and agents are not separate, but an intrinsic part of Nature.
  • @_ARCATEC_
    1:50:00 💓 "At the heart of every boundary is infinity, of which is boundless." In the Tillichian sense, utilizing what can be considered a hypergraph to point towards the approximate value of 0, while simultaneously conceptualizing the position of the computational limit, which is functionally referred to as a holographic screen providing an image of the object within what would mathematically be described as a Markov blanket, is difficult but fundamental. There is so much to say about this topic, but for now, I would like to share two numbers that really stand out to me. One is 10¹⁵, and perhaps the most difficult number to model of all is 0. it becomes evident that accepting approximation is intrinsic to the modeling process." Further contemplation... Holographic Screen over the Boundary of Unisonant Mind HS²/BU² Utilising the novel algebraic calculus of Intellidoscope we can construct the following formula: •(()())• the balance nested parentheses provide a syntactic framing. Let "XZY+Q" be coordinates, Let "H" be Holographic, "S" be Screen, "B" be boundary and "U" be Unisonant Mind. •X h(s z qb(u ) Z ( U)BQ z S)H Y• Progressing towards a conclusion: "H" has come to symbolise many different things from heat to holographic and even the Heart in it's most quintessential context. And although some forms of infinity remain undisclosed through our modelling we can still point towards them. That said there is an aspect of infinity somewhat disclose to us in that we can reasonably conclude there is a holistic and although we cannot fully fathom it's extent we can acknowledge it's temporalitie and dimensionality. d7•X d6 ( zd5 q(d1d2) Zd5 (d3 D4)Q zd5 ) d6 Y•d7 "To truly know something we must enter into it
  • @nonchai
    Absolutely fascinating interview and my first exposure to this amazing FEP stuff- was encouraged towards the end of the interview that it could lead to interpretable ( interrogable? ) neural nets - AIs' etc - in the future
  • @noomade
    Sesquipedalian and I love it! 😃
  • @aldousd666
    I am fascinated! This seems, (as Dr Ramstead rather derisively implied with his comment about the EU AI law,) to be the only way to actually reason about correctness. Even if not, it sure beats playing RHLF whack-a-mole. I now have a bunch of reading to catch up on. I see shades of Jeff Hawkins work here too, at least in spirit. Interesting theory on qualia too. I kinda have a 'suspicion' that you are right about that, but I'm too naive in the theory to be able to justify that thought.
  • @olivercroft5263
    Could this be related in some way to the RDoC (research domain criteria), deployed in the national institute for mental health for more broad mental health queries?
  • @MLDawn
    How great this video was! I had no idea that MAxwell was Prof. Friston's PhD student!!! A quick question for you guys: At 13:20, does 'tracking' refer to tracking the ever-escaping expected posterior out there in the world, by capturing the dynamics of the world? More technically, through the generalised coordinates of motion? If so, it makes sense to me, since if I can track the world around me, then I can predict my sensations, and if I can do that, then it means I can actively and dynamically update my generative model of the world. Is this accurate? Thanks.
  • @tomripley7148
    The problem i have with the free energy principle is that its draws heavy on schools in cybernetics but never angelogenes it, yes I look at you sir ...
  • @consistent1
    The FEP is new in its mathematical symbolic formulation. It was, however, a hot topic of debate among ‘mystics’ for millennia. My favorite encoding is the Toltec one, but the maps co-align if you know mmm the principal. BTW, from this POV the FEP amounts to having everything figured out with one notable exception - the sort of blankets that define an agent necessarily come in pairs. This is a crucial point, pun intended. Outer blankets define an agent’s boundaries while providing a certain degree of self-reflection for free. That’s a part the FEP crowd figured out in an amazing fashion. Brilliantly done!!! Maybe you are on to it, and I never came across (or did not recognize) this idea in the FEP ecosystem, but the Toltecs emphasize it to no end, so I will mention it because I agree. It is worth emphasizing - An outer blanket is coupled, necessarily, with an inner blanket, which is (under normal circumstances) way smaller. A point, if you wish. The inner blanket acts (necessarily) as the point where (drumroll, please) awareness is assembled. Accordingly, it is referred to as “the assemblage point”, for short. Think of it as a kind of shorthand to a serialization of the state the agent is in, if you wish, giving rise to coherence, continuity, and (with some help from ‘the outside’) awareness. Put another way, one implication of the whole being less than its parts is that the whole hides a virtually endless number of islands (of stability). Each island defines other possible wholes hidden from view in plain sight. What defines the (consistency of the) whole is a specific entanglement of free variables which creates the view, the active model, which the whole gets to experience from the inside. Each island is a possible position of the AP. If the AP moves to a different position (in relation to the outside blanket) the result is a completely different, yet completely coherent, perception of ‘reality’. Systems that have an AP at the same place, relative to their outer blankets, share features and may communicate. We all share the same place of our APs, and hence we all agree about the features of ‘physical reality’. According to those guys, from way back when, the FEP can and should be modeled as a map containing 4 aspects of (any system’s) being - Actions, generally placed in the north, represent the blankets from the outside. Rules/Reason, generally placed in the east, represent a serialization of the blankets and their interdependence (as a hypergraph). Resources/Options, generally placed in the south, represent the blankets from the inside. Intent, generally placed in the west, represent the interface between levels of abstraction. That’s an amazingly powerful ontology, in conjunction with some added rules of thumb, most notably the existence of the AP. The ontology is considered ‘energetically irreducible’, as far as we can tell, so it is the gold standard that may be used by modern ‘shamans’ to make dealing with the abstract, with awareness itself, fit our human concepts, sort of. That’s probably way more than is reasonable for a YT comment. :) Wow. Amazing work!!! What a great episode!
  • @jamesg5804
    I got to 1:44... " Marketing Idealists." [ Young, material, marketing idealists. ] What basis of evidence have you provided? (Perhaps it's in the portion past 1:44...but 'I doubt it.')
  • @haldanesghost
    reads the title me, before watching the episode: "This is giving me some Lotka vibes. Did MLST get some physical biology in?" Excited to see this episode.
  • @wp9860
    Regarding consciousness discussed at the closing stages of the video. Clearly, addressing consciousness within the FEP is in a speculative stage, which is no different than the stage consciousness is in by any other approach. I would still like to hear more discussion of consciousness. What is its function. Display was discussed, but what is the purpose of that display? Why consciousness, at all? ... Is consciousness a computational component of the human system? Bone, muscle, and sinew are not computational components. Is consciousness non-computational like those? If so, the FEP could never explain qualia because FEP is strictly a computational model. Does explaining consciousness even lend itself to an objective approach given that it only exists as a subjective phenomenon?