How to Build Your Character to Optimize a Party in PF2e

I watch a lot of Pathfinder related content as a relatively new player, and I think is the best video I've seen in terms of helpfulness for player builds. I really loved the breakdown of roles, and I think this might make me switch from an "I play what I like" to a genuine filler. I basically had to fill for the campaign we just started and my character build changed 3 times in the process..but it turns out I "accidentally" filled 90% of the holes the party had, according to this video. I really can't recommend this video enough. Edit: stupid spelling mistake

In high optimization discussion the Ur-Party is a Thief/Ruffian Rogue, Fighter(presumably a 2h trip/onockdown build), Heal Cleric and a Maestro bard. Fear/frightened synergy with dread striker, froghtening strike, etc, etc are also available

Pf2e is the best ttrpg because the only thing more fun than optimizing is optimizing with friends :)

One of my best niche-filling builds Gnashrip Glitterjaws - Goblin thaumaturge 9 with mirror and chalice, Blessed one and monk free archetypes. Pseudo tank - mirror to avoid hits, hungry goblin and wounding handwraps for constant THP. Reliable damage no matter what the resistance or weakness is. Diverse lore to fake all knowledge skills despite int and wis being dump stats. A couple of reliable healing powers. He wedges his esoterica into his teeth or wires them in like braces. Then when he bites, he always has something available to use. Follows Grandmother Vulture. Monk gives him Ki rush, extra HP and will give him flurry at 10th to help action economy.

I'm also on the queue fill enjoyer camp. Because I enjoy having inputs (party members) and optimizing around them, just like my rogue-like games! It's led to some interesting characters like an Intelligence-focused Gunslinger to cover DPS and knowledge checks😆😆

I'm so glad you're pointing out that fighting smart shows how casters are not really underpowered

The pathfinder 2e optimizer we didn’t know we needed.

My favourite party filler for DPR-brained parties is the Summoner - at its bare minimum it covers both Athletics and Charisma skills in its base package, and the specific subclasses let you lean in more towards specific goals. If I have absolutely no idea what anyone else is packing I go Plant and have a ranged Tripper /w 4 Heals minimum, with options to spec into Wisdom-based skills like Medic for more healing. Summoners with other spell traditions can also try to cover utility spells with scrolls for even more flexibility. It's not totally perfect, for example, I noticed that it's not great in smaller parties because there's less bodies between the actual summoner and the enemy, and if you're in an inconsistent group where the party might drop to 3 sometimes I might go for something else, but it usually slots very well in most groups.

I loved how I was able to flip my Thaumaturge into the support of the group when our only healer died. With the ok from the GM I was able to switch my implement to Tome and got Marshal as a archetype. Now I am the ultimate support with Tome, Regalia, Marshal stance, Occult pendant for Guidance, Healing Scrolls, Insane Demoralizes, etc... A great class to fill any hole needed, except tanking.

I left a similar comment in the Discord, but I figured I'd put a version here too. For The Algorithm!! In the "Common holes and ways to fill them" section, you mention some non-cleric options to fill those gaps. At some point, it would be GREAT to see a more detailed build video like this (maybe one for each class) for how you'd build a Bard or Rogue to help fill common party gaps. As a new player who may try to play a bit of PFS, I could see myself having a rotation of these "gap fillers" for different occasions. It also seems like a good way to learn the game through different styles of play. You also mentioned Investigator and Kineticist, but Bard & Rogue are in Player Core, so people new to the system may be trying those NOW. A similar Investigator video would be great after Player Core 2 comes out. But making one now doesn't make much sense with PC2 3 months away.

1. I love how "Grapple Cleric" comes to the rescue here. Just like in your Dawnsbury Days speedrun 2. I think it'd be interesting to see you build out some different party comps based on these principles IN Dawnsbury Days. I know it only goes to 4th level, but I think that's enough to see the start of the build. (EDIT: Ok, I wrote this before I say you show the builds in Dawnsbury Days... 😜 so I'm looking forward to seeing MORE builds shown of there) Great work!

For a game that's so heavily based on team synergy, those suggestions are really good. There are a few questions related to this topic I hope you could answer in comments or future content. 1. Some players would prefer to take skills that fit their character fantasy but not necessarily scale with their main start. What skills can work fine with and without the ability bonuses. Is the team with most of their trained skills not matching their main stats still valid or should players compromise a little bit to make it work? 2. How does filing the holes change with different team sizes? What's the priority for filling the niche in small parties when you can't cover it all. 3. What about bigger parties, what roles are best to be covered by multiple characters in situations where a team without you is already balanced? 4. Any DM tips on how to make a party that lacks in one specific area work without making it too easy?

I find there is a lot of freedom for most classes on what role they fill based off subclass features and feats. Like with the cleric going more support in cloistered or up front marshal in war priest. But as mentioned with the archetypes you can use them to fill out a variety of roles such as Medic you can pretty much get any class to be a decent healer. The same is true for many other roles as well with specific Archetypes. That said I feel like you left out a huge area on filling out the roles. Items can make a massive difference in how your party preforms and I'm not just talking about the bonuses to damage and defense but in how it can expand the roles you can play. You can get items with healing, buffs, AoE, and so on. Like if everyone in the party buys some Healer's Gloves you all have a once per day heal spell for emergencies if someone goes down like the healer or if the healer can't heal everyone. Investing in Resistance rings like Fire Resist can help reduce the pressure on your healer. There are also strategies that don't really need as heavy of focus on some areas because it's not an issue. Like you don't need much burst healing if no one is taking much damage. Our group had a powerhouse front line. It was a Power Attack 2H Fighter and Retribution Cleric using Gnome Flickmace for 10ft reach. The fighter was in front with the Paladin behind him. This forced the enemies into a lose lose situation. As they could do either of the following: A) Attack the heavy hitting fighter and trigger the Paladins reaction which would reduce the damage done to the fighter and allow the Paladin a free attack. B) Move past fighter triggering a Reaction Strike in order to attack the Higher AC/HP character. Later in the campaign it got even crazier as the Paladin got additional reactions so he could do it multiple times a round. As well as getting shield Warden and reckoning shield which allowed him to shield block and reduce the damage even more while still also getting to attack back. All while having 4 more AC than the fighter so anything trying to hit him instead of the fighter was gonna have a hard time of it. For example later levels like Level 13 was so funny because Retribution is 2+level=15 Damage reduced. Now shield block to protect the fighter and the Sturdy shield with Paladins shield ally is 17 Hardness thus reducing it further. What's that the Troll hit for 29 damage? So 29-15-17=-3 So fighter takes no damage. It's so amusing when enemies are hitting for no or single digit damage when your at high levels. The party wasn't untouchable though as the main risk to the party was casters with AoE or Ranged attacks. Most of the close fighters we had were enemies with multiple AoE attacks. Which brings up the other concern not mentioned in your video. Burst healing is nice to bring someone for dead to full HP, but sometimes you need a lot of healing to go around as when the whole party gets fireballed two turns in a row it's pretty harsh and you can't charge the caster as he's got his own meat shield in the way. So everyone carrying their own bit of healing be it potions or magic item like gloves mentioned above it can really help party survive.

Great advice on often underreprestented topic.

Positive comment

In the campaign I'm playing in, I started to realize we had a problem. We had an Oscillating Wave INT Psychic, a Water/Wood Kineticist focusing on healing, a Precision Ranger who focuses on ranged combat, and my Dragon Eidolon Summoner. Around the middle of level 2 I realized something: the only one regularly getting into melee was my eidolon. So, I retrained my 2nd level feat from Ranged Combatant to Reinforce Eidolon, and at level 3 I pivoted to get Expert in Athletics so my eidolon could use combat maneuvers. It has made a big difference having a (admittedly) mid tank, especially since I can supplement it with spells like Acid Grip. That is something I'm really liking about PF2 as I finally get to play it: there's usually a way to pivot to cover party gaps as you level up without having to scrap anyone's character.

True Story, I actually have gotten the final blow on a boss post level 10 with a rank 1 Magic missile. Also, at least once a week on my bard, I hear, "That's a miss" "do you remember that I'm singing" "oh, never mind, it hits then".

really happy to see this video! wonderful!

Very well done video!

Ever thought about making a video tutorial on specific builds? I would really like to see how to make some more novelty builds that are also viable to play without gimping my group too much lol Also i love all swing rippervideos