Base-to-Final Spin and Crash: Piper Tomahawk FSX
208,332
Published 2013-08-31
This video demonstrates a cross controlled stall in Microsoft Flight Simulator X using the Piper Tomahawk PA-38 by Alabeo.
When a pilot overshoots a runway, they will often attempt to salvage the approach by increasing back pressure on the yoke and applying full rudder into the direction of the turn. The pilot may then apply opposite aileron to reduce the bank angle. Doing so is extremely dangerous, as it increases the chance of stalling and spinning at a low altitude. This type of situation is one of the leading causes of general aviation fatalities according to the NTSB.
These accidents may be avoided by making shallow, coordinated turns. Back pressure on the yoke should be avoided. If an overshoot should occur, it is almost always advisable to simply execute a go-around. It is also important to note that stalls can still happen at high airspeeds, as long as the critical angle of attack is exceeded.
All Comments (21)
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I don't understand all the dislikes. This videos perfectly explains and actually shows a base to final spin. Great vid
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The Air Force fighter pilots who taught me to fly back in 1974 never had a defined base to final. When we turned to base it was 45 degrees to the runway. They always explained that being low and slow you wanted the best chance to make the end of the runway if anything should happen. Of course they were flying F4E phantoms all day.... Then they would come over to the Aero club and jump in a Cessna 150 with us enlisted guys and give us flying lessons for $5.00 an hour...the 150 was 10 bucks an hour wet...pretty expensive for us guys only making $326.10 a month lol... the good ol days😊
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My worst fears when flying. 1. unannounced ga pilots, 2. stall spin, 3. base to final stall spin
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I did my flight training in a Tomahawk right when they were introduced.Piper said it was designed based on input from thousands of flight instructors. The plane was slow (about 95kts cruise as I recall) and handled very well. It was designed to spin and I did that with my instructor. On my PPL check ride the examiner, who was not familiar with the Tomahawk because it was so new, told me to do a cross control stall and recovery. I did one but definitely did not hold the rudder fully deflected because I knew what would happen. The examiner said, "Let me show you how to do this" and did a fully-deflected cross control stall. We flipped over almost instantly, looking at the green fields through the top of the windscreen. After he recovered to level flight, he was quiet for a while, and then said, "This spins pretty easy, doesn't it." The Tomahawk could do slow, steep turns, but it was essential to keep the ball centered and lots of power to prevent airspeed from bleeding off.
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Nice video. As an owner of a Traumahawk who practices spins in it, this is on point.
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When I was an instructor, my FBO had a new Tomahawk on lease back. It was suggested that I take up a student in it, after check out. During check out, it was easy to feel that the plane was close to neutrally stable on the yaw axis in straight and level, but close to negatively stable in turns. You could just feel it on your behind (as the saying goes). My best description of flying it straight and level in the benign weather of SoCal is that it felt like sitting on a beach ball. I found the plane to be excellent in teaching students the importance of keeping the ball in the center. I also found it excellent in making students unsure about taking further lessons, until I reassured them that I just wanted to give them the only experience I would put them through in a not-so-greatly designed primary aircraft. That's something that I told them before the lesson. As well, I would tell them that they were fully capable of flying it safely, as they were already pretty proficient. Before the lesson, I also told them that I had thrown it into some pretty aggressive spins/stalls and wouldn't let them get into a situation that wasn't recoverable with a generous margin of safety. Somehow, I had to remind them of that preflight brief, after the lesson. That was calming to some extent, but I would always get a big smile when I reminded them that they would never have to fly it again. One time thing. Still, I could tell it left them with some issues of doubt. So, after just a few of those one time lessons, I quit taking my students up in it. Better to have a good, docile, confidence builder in the primary stage, than torture your students with some flyable but demanding platform.
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In his Commercial Pilot Flight manual Kershner devotes a whole page of drawings addressing this problem of cross controlling. I was a copilot on Big Sky Airlines and flew with a captain who routinely cross controlled. It appears that metroliners can handle crossed controls better. Somehow, he got the idea that keeping the plane flat, rather than in a banked attitude was supposed to be more comfortable for passengers. What an idiot. I always bid for schedules that I wouldn't have to be around him. I even wrote in my log book about his misunderstanding of needle and ball, of slipping and skidding. Also, I did some instructing in Piper Tomahawks. I went out and did some spin testing on my own. Those damned airplanes are scary. They will roll over into an INVERTED spin in a heartbeat. And they don't recover anywhere near as nice as a Cessna 150 or 172 does. They take more turns to get out of the spinning stall. Made me go look for a different job.
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River: Not a pilot but interested in this stuff.. Thanks for showing this simply AND for showing the correct way!
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Learned how to fly in one of these. The most important lesson I learned is air speed air speed air speed! Low and slow will kill you every time.
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They don't call them "Trauma-hawks" for nothing.
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Anytime I’m making a tight base to final turn, I’ll call out “coordinated, speed up”,
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So avoid steep turns at low altitude and especially at lower airspeeds.
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Very informative video! Thank you!
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The Tomahawk is a pilot maker, not a Sunday cruiser. When I started my instrument in a warrior after 60 hours in the tomahawk it seriously felt like cheating with how stable it was. The tomahawk exceeds other trainers in so many other areas, namely in exposing poor stick and rudder coordination. anyone who complains about it is trying to fly it like a stable Cessna or a conventional tale low wing. While it is slightly underpowered and barely enough useful load to get two grown men off the ground, it teaches skills that are transferable rather than habits which expect the plane to work for you.
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The first thing that bothered me was when the pilot cut power, the engine went quiet, all while still on the downwind leg.
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well done demonstration.
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Nice teaching video. these are accidents that need never to happen and can be avoided so easy by just admitting the landing approach is screwed up and go around. It all comes back to the ego thing.
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thats why you always want to make sure you're coordinated
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Nice video, and an important topic. I think that there are other factors that set the pilot up for the stall/spin accident, and they are demonstrated in the video: base is flown very low (turn to base in the video at 500ft AGL or lower), and the power reduction at turn to base seems excessive. The base is also so far in that the pilot won't have time to correct the approach. This and the sight picture suggest over-juddering the final turn. (I'm a glider pilot, and I flew the PA38 for my first power plane. Nice plane, unpleasant trim, but great visibility. Economical, too.)
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Nice vid. Reminds me of my flying days.
