Game of Thrones' Laws Make No Sense

ok, yeah maybe they make no sense but COUNTERPOINT. Imagine being a highborn lad, stealing a loaf of bread or something an then ask for a Trial of Seven and fight 7 knights with your mates. Those were the days

Something that was always funny to me is how Ned brought 6 of his mates on his way to the tower of joy as if he was accounting for the possibility Rhaegar might demand a Trial of Seven Like Ned didnt just came prepared, he was steps ahead

Stannis: Firm but fair, strong sense of justice and penance, will hold anyone accountable for their actions. Robert: Makes Renly master of laws.

GRRM: "Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy?" Also GRRM:

The job of Master of Laws is to sit there in the council and get overruled as the king makes the laws. It seems that enforcing laws falls to the Wardens of the land so it's more redundant unless the person in that position is politically savvy and actually uses it.

The abolishment of Trail by Combat by the faith is essential to their goal of reestablishing the faith militant when you look at its history. The last they did trial by combat it was against Maegor who, after winning dismantled the faith militant

So I think the laws of Westeros make a bit more sense when you consider that the Lord of a given area is essentially the end-all and be-all of the law. The Lord resolves all legal disputes based on whatever their personal preference is, and so there isn't as much need for a complex legal system--except in the areas that relate to a Lord holding onto their power. Those being succession laws and trial by combat.

I think the craziness of Westerosi law is kind of the point: Medieval law was arbitrary and ill-defined. The only reason the Magna Carta got passed when it did was because King John was in a weak enough position that some noblemen were able to force it on him. And even then, it only protected the rights of the nobility from the king, not the commoners from their own lords. Now, Dorne seems to have a detailed written system of law, as Doran included a law book in Arianne's prison suite. But that's Dorne, which is culturally distinct from the other six realms.

No one in the comments here seems to understand GRRM's Aragaorn Tax Policy quote. He wasn't saying stories should be more dry and boring, he was saying that life is more complex than "Good men are good kings so things are good." He wasn't calling for entire economic and legal systems to be fully detailed and thought through, but just saying he likes when stories examine the complexities and grey areas of life

What about the Night's Watch? It effectively acts as the ol' "go to prison or join the army" deal while also playing a role in succession law

In an interview Martin specifically said there is no Magna Carta in Westeros. It's an absolute monarchy.

While the conflict in the main series is loosely base don the Wars of the Roses, I'd argue that Westeros is a lot more analogous to England in the 12th and 13th centuries rather than the 15th and 16th. So the lack of codified laws makes sense thematically and historiclaly, especially when you consider the fact that while Magna Carta was signed by King John in 1215 (under duress from his rebellious Barons) it was invalidated by the Pope months later and basically ignored for 50 years, until the Second Barons Revolt in 1264. And after Longshanks crushed that revolt, Magna Carta was only loosely applied based on the whims of individual Kings, until the Great Revolution in the 1600s, which really cemented the transformation of England from a feudal to a Constitutional Monarchy.

I love how he built a wourld where most is just assumed. I think its because he build such detailed characters and conflict that you just add the law as it fits in the world.

I AM NOT CRAZY!! I AM NOT CRAZY!!! The Magna Carta was signed in 1215, one before the address of the Mesa Verde bank.

I understand the logic behind saying these various noble lords should probably be spending more time addressing disputes between their subordinates, but I think I have an answer as to why - they let their stewards handle that, only taking a more active hand in certain issues. It's similar to how many noble houses have an executioner, or how the Hand of the King holds court in place of the king. I feel like this makes sense, given that almost every POV character we have that you'd expect to deal with this kind of thing are generally fairly high ranking, so they'd probably only feel obligated to step in when the dispute is between two lords. By contrast, a minor lord, or even a landed knight might have a more direct relationship with his subjects. Additionally, there's a more simple reason for why that's not included - it's kinda boring. While I'm sure you would enjoy that kind of thing, I doubt there's much of a market for "Fantasy John Grisham," and I imagine it'd be hard to pull that off.

Per someone on reddit many years ago: Why is Jeor Mormont giving Jon Longclaw not as big a deal as it seems? Because Jon only has a life estate in it (and even if he held it in fee simple, can have no heirs). 🙃 PS—Set up Anki now so you don’t have to relearn everything for the bar exam.

In The Once and Future King (and the musical Camelot), it's ironically the abolishment of trial by combat and establishment of jury trial that messes the whole thing up. So long as Lancelot could beat anyone in combat, he and Guinevere were safe from accusations of infidelity/treason.

I was kinda hoping you'd address the blood price that was mentioned in the Dunk and Egg books and compare it to the Weregeld of real history. King Jaehaerys' abolishment of it in favor of a lord's right to pits and gallows, basically allowing a lord to "try" and execute anyone for crimes on their land. I like that it plays into the big theme of a lot of Jaeheareys' reign, at first it looks good he put a stop to people being able to get away with murder if by paying money, but as seen in the Sworn Sword it actually just ends up perpetuating feuds and violence.

Lyonel Strong, Septon Barth, and future-king-Viserys-II are THE examples of who a King's Hand should be

Honestly the fact that you were still putting out good content pretty consistently while being a 1L is fucking bananas, you really deserve props for your work ethic. I hope your finals went well!