Debating Konstantin Kisin on the "Religious Left"

I'm surprised ppl take this Konstantin guy seriously. He sat there with a straight face and said the left doesn't criticize Elon over his free speech absolutist hypocrisy. Konstantin is so deep in his right-wing echo chamber he didn't realize the left did criticize musk's free speech grift even before he bought twitter.

Alex's position was far more coherent and consistent. Kisin was merely "the people I agree with don't do it, but the people I disagreee with do".

Steps to build a religion: 1. Throw soup at something

I think it's more correct to say that for many Veganism is both a lifestyle and an ethical framework; rather than just a diet.

“Do you believe that the political ideology that you believe as passionately as I do my own is a complex super-natural belief system because you believe it a lot”

I always find it hilariously ironic when religious people disparage things and movements they don't like as a religion. As Kisin said, they mean something like dogmatic and fanatical, but if you are a relgious person using religion with this meaning, aren't you just calling yourself out as being fanatical and dogmantic?

Kisin’s entire argument is, “allow me to name call the things that I disagree with, so I don’t have to engage with them critically.” Disgusting. If you disagree with an idea, then say that and present your reasons. I hate the idea that we could label an idea as ‘religious’ make fun of it and walk away without even thinking about the idea.

religion is when you throw soup on things.

It's weird the entire premise of this conversation is Kisin saying religion is people having a set of beliefs which are impractical and irrational in service of some myth. No it's not, that's irrational and only potentially related to religion. Religion itself is a set beliefs primarily concerned with god, the supernatural, spirituality, human purpose, and can be potentially understood as prescribing some supreme importance to something.

I think Alex may be the most patient man in the world. I have seen him patiently discuss issues with numerous self-appointed geniuses, who say the most outlandish things, and he always stays calm. This guy "everyone who believes in something deeply, if I don't also believe it, is engaged in irrational religiosity." That is a useful metric to dismiss everyone without an inkling of thought.

I don't know a single left-winger who has not been incredibly vocal in their critique of Elon's so-called "free speech" position. there are troves of content made by talented communicators on the left making this exact critique, that Musk's position is nonsensical and ultimately hypocritical. it's incredibly dismissive and dishonest for Kisin to just say "nah but nobody on the left is actually saying that"

This Konstantin fella is very committed to his own dogmatic viewpoint. Kind of ironic tbh. Alex just shines a light on his irrationality.

They try so hard to look centrists and unbiased 🤣

It's pretty awesome to watch Alex point out these fools' hypocrisy on their own show.

I like how the right uses "religious" as an insult, but they're the ones that vastly uphold an actual religion(Christianity). You can't have it both ways

It's amazing how in denial these guys are. Konstantin is not just a conservative, he comes off as someone who's so completely and utterly immersed in the conservative ecosystem that he's never even heard an opposing opinion. It's like his entire conception of the left comes from reading boomer facebook memes.

Claiming XYZ Is a religion, Is simply a new form of pejorative, which can be used as a tool to try and discredit a position you don't agree with. For example, flat earthers often claim people who believe in the scientific method, are nothing but religious zealots who pray at the temple of scientism. In and of itself, it's really nothing but a meaningless ad hominem, and if it is the strongest argument someone can offer, then they really have no argument at all.

Thinking veganism is a religion is a religion.

Woah the Kisin guy is absurdly uncharitable. It actually caught me off guard lol.

Kisins arguments are awfully dependent on a constructed notion of the opponent he believes actually exists. But based on what? A few columnists he doesn't agree with? People flaming on X? It's a strawman. Surely you can see the problem with him asking Alex to tell him what 'one of these people' would say about Musk is that it's a nebulous construct defined essentially as 'people who don't hold a rational position which is in opposition to my own'. But what he's failed to nail down is whether or not this is actually a significant number of people, and in fairness it ought to be compared to the number of people who blindly hold beliefs which align with his own. Surely the issue is not that there is some sort of 'religion', but that there exists a portion of the population which is uneducated and buys into emotional fear stoking and appeals to 'common sense' (which is just an echo chamber's in-group preference) rather than pursuing data and systemic solutions. Whether it's climate change or immigration, Kisin is just as guilty of stirring up his own 'religious' followers as is Thunberg, even just by his own logic.