Why There Can Never Be Another Smash Bros

funnily enough rivals was actually my gateway into fighting games and competition as a whole, I used to be a smash kid who only ever played against friends and bots since the online was a paid subscription and terrible anyway, I initially tried rivals for the modded content because I wanted to play as or make any character I could imagine, but then I realized "wait the original characters are kinda cool actually" --> "hey the online is pretty good and it's free" --> "oh there's a matchmaking discord for my region that runs biweekly tournaments" --> "wait when did I get 500 hours on the game". Rivals was a game that made me interested in competing where smash didn't even though I didn't have any friends who played it, simply by being a very inviting game to compete in (characters and mechanics that incentivize you to grind them, really in depth tutorials and a great online experience) and I was able to get to know a lot of awesome people thanks to it, it even got me into traditional fighters since it showed me how fun it could be to compete, rivals is for me what smash is to smash players

Smash isn’t about playing the best platform Fighter. It’s about playing Smash.

building an L to screenshot is the best fighting game combo ever

I think the biggest reason no platform fighter can reach the popularity of Smash is because it isn't Smash. Smash is popular because it's a massive crossover of video game icons you've known all your life. NASB and Multiversus also tried going for the crossover aspect of marketing, but couldn't find a foothold due to generally being considered inferior games. Other plat-fighters also lack a casual draw. No Smash player started playing competitively immediately. Items, insane stage hazards and big fun moves are why people fell in love with Smash initially, and most platform fighters aim exclusively for a competitive audience. Of course they won't get the same numbers, they're aiming for a niche inside of a niche. Rivals tried to solve this problem with the inclusion of Workshop, and to an extent it worked. More people were playing the game, and it even got a bunch of online recognition. Look at all the YouTubers that covered it. Dunkey, Carson... However, including the aforementioned content creators, people were playing exclusively Workshop over the actual game, and was instead widely looked at as a platform fighter Mugen instead (ignore the pinned comment that completely contradicts me). The next big platform fighter needs to find a way to unify casual and competitive audiences the way Smash could.

Rivals 2 is probably not going to take over the genre, but, it's still going to be hell of a game to compete in, and I can't wait!

About Fullstreams comment at 10:10... "Why wouldn't you want a more fast-paced game?" Ask a Street Fighter player why they prefer their game over Dragonball FighterZ. Not every platform fighter has to be this ultra-fast paced attempt at recapturing Melees speed. It's fine for Rivals and Nick All-Stars to try and capture that, but I hope more upcoming platform fighters try out more things. I really liked what PS All-Stars tried for example. Traditional fighting game combos mixed with platform fighter movement and stage design was so fun for me. I'm hoping more companies give platform fighters a chance and try unique things, be it an anime crossover by Bandai Namco or Microsoft trying their hand at it.

I think another reason why smash is mostly successful compared to other platform fighters is because of what smash has. It has Adventure Mode with them long legit platform levels like in melee and brawl, Break The Targets, Home-Run Contest, Coin Battle, and more. It doesn't mostly rely on the fighting aspect with platforming in it, something that most platform fighters are doing for some reason, which probably puts more replayability when it comes to its content being more than just fighting on platforms.

I think the main aspect of smash this video didn't cover (and many other videos don't cover) is the fact that the majority of the smash community ISN'T the competitive scene. The smash bros competitive community makes up around 5% of the player base. The 95% of the community are "casuals" who just want a party game to play that everyone can understand. All the footage taken is from that 5%. All the points made from the video is basically asking, "why is the 5% smash community even smaller in other platform fighters". The visible smash community that you see on Twitter or Youtube is that 5%. Smash "clones" or platform fighters tend to market themselves to the 5% and not the 95%. I disagree with using Genesis data in order to prove your point; because, that data is a very small sample size of that 5%. Brawlhalla is still popular to this day because it's appealing to that 95%, casual marketplace. Multiversus (when it first came out) was also appealing to casuals imo in concept. Rivals has a lot of work that it tried to do to appeal to casuals (workshop, storymode) but it wasn't enough. This 95% 5% split is something every game ever has. From FPS like Valorant to MOBAs like League, the majority playerbase of most games are casuals and are under or around Gold rank. It just depends if new games/companies want to market towards the casuals or the niche that is competitive games.

My gut feeling is that Smash Ult won't be the last game for the series. Given how hugely popular it is and also how profitable it is for Nintendo as well to move console units, I can ensure you once the next console happens we'll either see Smash 6, or a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe moment happening with the series. Whether Sakurai is heading it or not, I'm all but sure it's a matter of not if but when it returns.

I've been a Smash kid for about as long as I can remember. I got Brawl when I was like, 8. I remember falling in love with the game the second I started playing it. It was the first fighting game I ever played, and I loved every living, breathing second of it. But honestly, after that, it really didn't become too hard for me to try other fighting games. I remember back in middle school when I tried Ultra SFII for the first time, since I always wanted to try Street Fighter. I fell in love with that too. Traditional 2D fighting was something I thought I wouldn't enjoy, but instead grew to love the more technical, execution-heavy style of it. Fast forward to high school years, and I'm here watching BBTag, DBFZ, Rivals, all these fighting games, wishing I had my own PC so I could try it. Now I do, I have all of those games, and I'm one happy college freshman. Smash was more than just the only fighting game I would play. It awakened a love for ALL fighting games that would grow as I grew up. A competitive gaming style that I loved and was willing to train and practice at over and over again. I was never big on shooters, anyway. Even going into Rivals with the expectations of "Dream Characters Sprite Smash" I ended up finding a game whose controls, combos, and online flowed together better than Smash ever did for me! That's not including being allowed to play as my goat Goku fr. Rivals has ALWAYS been the platform fighter that broke away from Smash the most to me, despite being made before all the others. You can feel that Smash inspired it, but it plays like a different game, especially compared to Ultimate. It's transcended into a fucking MUGEN at this point. Dan made something THAT DAMN GOOD. I have no doubt Rivals 2 will break from Smash's mold as well, and forge it's own path. I personally believe Rivals deserves a spot right next to Smash, as a true spiritual successor.

I think, on top of smash being one of first games of its kind. It also has characters people know and have grown up with. ALSO on top of that, it being a very polished game with tons of money being pumped into it.

As an aspiring indie fighting game dev heavily influenced by Smash, here's some things I think are worth adding: 1. One of my own frustrations is that nothing matches the game feel of Smash's movement. It's got that Nintendo platformer juice that no other platform fighter compares to. As it turns out, platformer-style movement is REALLY difficult to design and make feel good. Sakurai is one of the few people who knows how to make good-feeling platformer movement and amazing combat feel. 2. A lot of folks who grew up with Smash didn't see its own biggest inspiration: King of Fighters. The focus on precise jumping to mix up approaches, the KoF out-of-bounds mechanic being made a focus, every normal being a command normal, etc. Smash genuinely innovated on SnK's philosophy of gameplay. 3. Smash was design for the Nintendo 64 controller. It had one great strength: the analog stick, which allowed for precise movement and Sakurai's new smash input. It also had a restriction: a hierarchical button layout that made accessing anything but the A and B buttons take more effort. Smash maximizes the use of the analog stick while making the most out of the button layout restrictions.

I think it is about time that a platform fighter should come out that puts more emphasis on the “platformer” part rather than the “fighter” aspect. I also wished Sakurai saw space for a new Smash with very expressive advanced techniques. I think it’s possible to have a high skill ceiling and low skill floor. Hell, I think casuals would find stuff like wavedashing fun.

It sounds like you need to publish a major amount of outstanding ip’s that capture a broad audience and then bring them together for a crossover. Like, smash 64 pulled me in because I saw my cousin breaking the targets with pikachu, everyone always mentions how cool a certain character was when they first played or saw the game. Nintendo’s position as a kid and family friendly gaming brand lets them really just always have a kind of relevancy and grasp on the whole market thanks to the likelihood of early years of exposure.

It is funny how little big companies have tried to make their platform fighters. I get Namco (as they helped make the last smash), but like where is the platform fighter from capcom (the creators of pocket fighter, a pre-smash intercompany crossover) or SNK (KOF was a crossover AND the reason smash was made) ? When Street Fighter 2 exploded, lots of Street Fighter 2 clones appeared, but they only started to get their identities when big names started appearing.

Really great video! I definitely see on why Sakurai sees Smash Bros as a Party Game and comes down to practically how most of us growing up got into Smash. Its about playing and having fun with friends and family. It’s not until we got into playing more that we start to find the potential competitive side Smash soon become. That being said, I wouldn’t say Sakurai hasn’t out right refused the competitive scene as he added elements in Ultimate that enhanced the experience for competitive play like the 1v1 score count, squad strike and not to mention the Final Hit Effect.

I think one big part of why Smash is more successful than other platform fighters is because it has a focus on casual players more than most of its competitors. I believe the next most popular platform fighter is Brawlhalla. One major component of that game is the interaction players have with items. Brawlhalla basically asks "what if competitive Smash had items turned on?" For most casual Smash players, items are a big part of the game for them and with Brawlhalla including item play in its competitive experience, it makes itself a great synthesis of aspects of the game genre both casuals and competitive players enjoy. And while obviously now Brawlhalla also has many crossover events each with skins and two of the roster's characters, I'd say much of its success comes from having a system that is seamlessly able to appeal to both competitive and casual mindsets.

I think a lot of platform fighters go the direction of "competitive" play is because going for casual play is basically trying to go head to head with smash. Im not justifying not having single player content for people to mess around in and get attached to the game in, but I am understanding as to why devs might not try to go the "casual" route. I personally think the focus should be on getting casual fighting gamers into the genre rather than purely casual players. To make a comparison, this is something both strive and street fighter 6 do. They have elements from other games in the genere to make it more appealing for other people to try the game out. Another thing Id like to point out is the difficulty of desigining platform fighters likely increases when you have to factor in additional types of controlers. Smash doesnt have this issue, it can just try to perfectly refine its gameplay for one controler (that will die to joycon drift). Other games have to factor in both analogue and digital inputs with people playing on pc's being a pretty common activity. Because of this, i think its a little harder to nail the gamefeel. Another point Id like to bring up is the curse of having high mobility. Giving a player too much mobility is a genuine issue that can occur. Its why 3d fighters will sometimes be closer to 2d fighters with a sidestep system - unbound 3d movement is usually hard to balance. And thats without even factoring in jumps! Final notes: I saw shovel knight showdown flash on screen for a moment there. Love that game, and how it feels like a celebration of its own series. I hope it gets a sequel one day! Id also like to point out what i think is the best casual platform fighter outside of smash. King of the Hat. Its unique, its silly, its cool.

Most platform fighters always focus on being competitive first and being fun third because being a crossover is their second priority. It took years for Rivals Of Aether to just add some extra modes like tether and sort of fix the story mode, and until now, the only game that seems to have added some fun casual elements for both single player and multiplayer was NASB2 because on NASB 1 that wasn't even an available option and was criticized for that. Sakurai always understood the point was to have fun, grab and play and try the other options, on melee he could see the incoming monster and decided to control the beast by not changing his vision, just look at how everyone else wants to copy melee without understanding how they got into melee and stayed in the first place.

Good Video, I liked how it shows Sakurai's way of doing stuff and how it's like to others that try to do it too, And not comparing your thing to the orginal because people will prefer the original is a good tip.