The Epidemic That Dare Not Speak Its Name | Stephen J Shaw | EP 338

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Published 2023-03-09
Ep. 338

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Peterson draws upon his extensive research and relatable real-life experiences to illustrate how to develop attainable goals for intimate relationships, meaningful friendships, and your career. Transform the chaotic potential of the future into actuality — with a vision.

Dr. Jordan B Peterson and Stephen J Shaw discuss the Birthgap, a term recently coined by Shaw– and the subject of his new documentary by the same name. In this interview, they examine the long building but invisible causes of what may be the most pressing issue facing the western world in the next few decades. Worst case scenario: total societal collapse due to a lack of new children being born, and a rise in senior citizens living longer.

Stephen is a British national who has studied and lived on three continents. He trained as a computer engineer and data scientist before starting his first film project, “Birthgap,” at age 49. He is president and co-founder of the data analytics company, Autometrics Analytics LLC.

Stephen holds an MBA graduate business degree from ISG in Paris, France, and is continuing his studies at Harvard Extension School.

Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8

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- Links -

For Stephen J Shaw:

Watch the Documentary “Birthgap”: www.birthgap.org/spaces/9045429/page

Stephen J Shaw on YouTube: youtube.com/@birthgap

Twitter: @StephenJShaw twitter.com/StephenJShaw


- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(1:23) Intro
(2:32) Who is Stephen J Shaw?
(5:11) Noticing the problem
(7:30) Web of small dragons
(9:02) The Birthgap explained
(12:00) Hungary, childlessness
(13:30) Family structure
(16:13) A vast majority want children
(20:07) Involuntary childlessness
(21:00) If emissions are halved tomorrow…
(23:06) Suburban ghost towns
(28:04) A wave of collapses: infrastructure, reality, social security
(30:03) Immigration for population replacement?
(32:36) Culture drain, those left behind
(34:40) Tokyo, 1973 and now
(35:40) Cultural loss of respect for the elderly
(38:51) Making his first documentary film at 49
(41:06) Starting with a question
(42:13) Is the birth control pill a cause?
(44:43) When to pursue family and education
(45:30) The lies we tell young women
(49:00) 1 in 3 by 30 have procreation problems
(50:45) Why you really go to college
(52:40) The fertility window
(55:44) Why aren’t people useless all the time?
(57:03) The connection across borders
(1:00:03) Reaching replacement level
(1:01:22) Demoralized to the point of inaction
(1:05:03) The path to childlessness
(1:07:45) Mate selection and hypergamy
(1:10:40) The time to decide
(1:15:00) The “Population Bomb” was a dud
(1:17:11) We do not live in a petri dish
(1:19:01) From a point of positivity
(1:23:46) The inverted pyramid
(1:26:50) Africa and the cycle of booms
(1:30:29) Hungary, incentivizing reproduction
(1:33:00) The fundamental problem
(1:36:20) Holding motherhood as sacred
(1:38:56) The need for a plan
(1:41:01) Lifelong learning should be a cultural norm


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All Comments (21)
  • As a single childless woman who’s 28, this makes me sick. I feel enormous guilt that I am part of the problem. I am battling personal issues while desperately trying to find marriage and have a family. I wish people would acknowledge that not all single childless women are raging feminists who chose a career over kids, some of us are trying our best but failing anyways
  • @OGA103
    Growing up and all through college I NEVER thought I'd be a stay at home mom. Six years into working it hit me. Why am I spending all this time trying to please people who would replace me in an instant if I dropped dead? My kids and family are infinitely more important to me than any stupid career I could ever have.
  • I became a Mom at 18 years old. After that i went to study. Then i had two more children, sadly i got divorced at 30. Got remarried at 32 and became a Mom to my husband kids. So then we had 5 kids altogether. Then our kids grew up and out of the house. Today at 49 we foster and adopted 3 more kids. So all together we have 8 kids. I have been a Mom since 18 years old and i feel that is my gift from God. Blessed to be a Mom ❤
  • @cyndibates1
    I had five kids, starting with my first born when I was age 23 and had my last baby at 33. Many of the rising generation don't even think about having kids until they are at least 33! I was able to be home with my kids and go to school online for my teaching degree. I worked at a pace that was comfortable for a busy mom. Now I am about to graduate with a Masters degree at 43 years old and my youngest is just about old enough to get himself out the door to school in the mornings. Society will get about 20 years of good, solid work out of me before I retire, and that from a woman who has actually raised children and knows how to teach them and guide them from first hand experience. I'm grateful for this privilege. I know it doesn't work this way for everyone, but for me, it was 100% worth it to make the choice to be a mom first.
  • I was a teen mom, I hated that I had “ruined” my life. Looking at this makes me realize how lucky I was! I actually had 3 all by the age of 28. You will never regret a child’s love! I went to college in my 30’s and opened my business in my 40’s.
  • @cml2176
    As a mom of 8 who stayed home and homeschooled them, I am so grateful this is being discussed. I earned my masters degree while pregnant and ended up returning to work after our youngest was in school full time. Jobs can wait, family can’t….and there’s a reason I’m one of the best at my job. Motherhood creates numerous avenues of wisdom, stamina, toughness and empathy for others.
  • @zuzumori
    Even if I end up in a nursing home,I'll forever be grateful to my daughter. She is the reason that motivated me to quit my addictions,to get healthier and to become a more mature and less selfish person. I would be dead by now,and it would've been a really depressing end. At least now I have a hell of a story (both of self growth and love) that nobody nor nothing can take away from me. If I can spend the rest of my days remembering all those moments all alone and sick,I'll die fulfilled. BTW,I used to be a nihilist Buddhist and a nursing home volunteer,pro-abortion and a feminist working for companies that fired employees the day they lost their mothers. Now I take care of my mother(she's always been mentally ill), my mother-in-law(physically debilitated) and my teenage daughter. I found meaning in life dedicating to others,even if there is no reward. That's the point.
  • 46:15 I am a woman in my 40's with a masters degree and what you would consider a good job in the public domain but I loove the comment you made that we are lied to that career is the most important thing in our lives. Because on the job no one cares about you, you are supposed to work 8 hours a day but a mean boss can give you 16 hrs worth of work and expect you to finish in 8 hours...and it has an effect on your family life and friends. This comment you made made me re-evaluate my priorities. The job was my nr1 priority, and I was ending up isolated and miserable. And I begun to change my ways mainly because of your comments and I already see positive results, like my close relatives who are happy to see me more and we spend very good moments, and surprisingly it has a good effect on my work too!!
  • I'm 57. I'm raising my first child. She's 5 now. Wife died and it's difficult but I am far happier struggling raising this little girl than I've ever been. Plus having children forces us to pay attention to the world around you. And that changes everything. Turns out paying attention is a profoundly moral act.
  • I'm 39 and have a 1 yr old boy. I thought I knew what was important in life, and I thought I knew what made me happy. Come to find out watching my child learning the most mundane tasks has made me the happiest. You have all these grandiose ideas but when I had a child I finally figured out what was truly important. Children are a blessing.
  • @magdalenem4949
    Am 52, an only child raised without extended family and I didn’t know my father until I was 11 which wasn’t his fault and he has been a terrific dad for me. Since I was deprived of the family unit I craved so badly I thought I could make my own family w at least two children, but my biology failed me. At 45 I had a cry session where I mourned the death of my womb that never bore fruit. I did marry a great guy in my late 30s, who has a son and is the light of our lives. To work through my infertility I volunteer for a charity that helps sick and terminally ill children and it reminds me that there are others dealing w worse issues than mine, and helping them and serving others fills me w purpose, and I serve God in the process which is most important. Am grateful we have my stepson, sometimes God gives you want to prayed for in different ways.
  • @ellymae5313
    About to have my first baby at 24. My husband and I weren't expecting her, but we are both so grateful she exists! I'm grateful she'll get to know her grandparents and great grandparents, and we'll still have a lot of energy to chase her, and hopefully her future siblings, around. I finished college a couple years ago. I worked a decent paying job for four months. It was a miserable four months 😂 much better to help my husband with his business and develop home building skills that none of the other women in my life would teach me. And now I get to raise and homeschool my babies ❤ and teach them our family's history. So grateful we can have babies. Could have just as easily not been able to.
  • @kenlynschuldt7815
    I am one of the lucky ones. Married my husband at 43...he was 45. When I asked my doctor what the likelihood of having a baby was...he said 0 percent. I ended up conceiving naturally at 47 and had my son at 48. I had an easy pregnancy and a healthy baby. Afterward many people told me that they had been praying for us to conceive the whole time. God is so generous! I feel so blessed to be a Mom! Thanks for this awesome interview!
  • I had six children with my husband, raised them as a SAHM on my hard-working husband's blue-collar income, then went back to finish school. I am a nurse. I love my life. I am a grandmother. I have NO regrets. Our life is so blessed.
  • @tunkytunky
    My husband is from rural Japan, we went to visit this summer. It's astounding how many businesses were starting to close in that town compared to the last time we went. The young people all left for elsewhere, so the business were closing because there was no one to replace the aging workers. Several houses that i don't recall being abandoned were empty and boarded up. It was interesting to see up close but alarming.
  • @lux-veritatis
    I’ve wanted a family and children my whole life but have struggled to find a man on the same page, who is mature enough and willing to work to provide - a lot of broken promises and let downs in the relationship arena from staying too long with reluctant, self absorbed men. I’m now in my 30s and still waiting and desperately hoping everything pulls together before it’s too late. I’d give up work in a heartbeat to be a loving mother and wife but this generation is so broken and careless and the social support just is not there for many of us. I have no parental support, lack a solid community to rely on and most of my friends are childless and likely will stay that way so I know if I do have kids it will be relatively on my own which makes it so much harder too..
  • Thank God this is finally being talked about. I am 38 with no children and very much want to be a mother. I know I still have a few years to make it happen, and I'm hoping I can (within the confines of a loving marriage). But 100% I was lied to my entire school career and through my twenties. I was told that education was the most important. And that getting a job was the only respectable way to live. Stay at home mothers are portrayed as losers or women that couldn't cut it in the real world. I love seeing more and more women of my generation and younger leaving the grind culture, taking their husbands last name, starting small homesteads and homeschooling their children. We don't have to continue to go quietly into that good night as a culture. We can quietly rebel
  • @MaryRosebud
    I’m 73. When I was young, I decided to have a family with my husband, he agreed, and we had 5 children. I received a lot of laughter and criticism for this, as this was the beginning of the push in media and colleges to teach women to get educated and go to work. Family, to me, is the reason we are here, besides to live for Jesus. I have never been sorry that I gave up material things to have children that I would have the privilege of loving.
  • @MrRight0930
    There is definitely another reason for the reduced birthrate. It's happening in China and Korea due to huge stress level young people are experiencing. The same problem is happening or about to happen in Canada too. High living cost, property cost are stopping young people to get married and have kids
  • @Riggsnic_co
    These are very valuable rules for anybody who wants to get rich. Unfortunately, most people who will watch this video will not really be able to apply the principles. We may not want to admit, but as Warren Buffett once said, investing is like any other profession-- it requires a certain level of expertise. No surprise that some people are losing a lot of money in the bear market, while others are making hundreds of thousands in profit. I just don't know how they do it. I have about $89k now to put in the market.