Pull The Lever or Nah? Trolley Problems 1 - SimplyPodLogical #155

Remember: if you see someone stealing food or baby formula, no you didn't. (You don't need to play hero when someone is just trying to survive).

I think my favorite take is this parent set up a scenario on a train set toy and the little kid moved the one person over with the rest of the people and ran all of them over LOL!!!

Im a therapist. I consider Kohelberg’s model of moral development. It sounds like you (Ben and Cristine) are in stage 5 (almost the last stage) when speaking about retail theft. You consider the law for the law. People should not steal, now items are behind keys at target + Walmart. Stage 6 would consider why?. In the US, many retail store like Target that are in “poorer” areas have more items behind keys. Not chips or clothes, but deodorant, shampoo, textured hair care, toothpaste : hygiene. Often because people steal these items the most; why? Because people need them. Why would people need to steal this? Maybe they can’t afford it, which, studies have proven this. Instead we should consider removing the barrier to affording basic needs like hygiene items.

"The Good Place" tackled the trolley (and other philosophy & ethics scenarios) in Season 2, Episode 6.

As a painter, as someone who is obssesed with Art, I COMPLETELY agree with you, Cristine, regarding the Monalisa and every other painting in existence, including my own.

I can see why she wants to do this episode because Cristine loves overthinking everything 😂 But I love y’all’s analytic brains and sociology background it’s so interesting.

Cristine always thinks of these scenarios ending up in court, but I've seen a point raised some time ago that if you think of incidents ending in that way, then some morals are already broken to get there.

Second year law student (NZ) here 👋🏾. In regards to law around negligence (mentioned as recklessness) being discussed at 10:13 while it’s true that you can be prosecuted for doing ‘nothing’ you have to have a relationship with the victim that constitutes as a duty. E.g. duty as a parent or duty as a caregiver to an disabled/elderly person (these are the two main ones) so doing nothing would not result in a criminal liability in the case discussed in the first scenario. It could be argued but it would absolutely gain no ground especially given the difficult situation presented. Edit: also just to add, what Ben said about requiring good samaritan behaviours from people is actually pretty on point with what we discuss in law school regarding negligence laws. It could become a very sticky situation in law if we freely prosecuted people for doing 'nothing' or required people to be a good samaritan by law. Another reason is mens rea (intent) is hard to determine from negligence or doing nothing e.g. just because I watched someone die and didn't do anything doesn't mean I wanted them to die, and it would be practically impossible to prove I had that intent in court. The legal system just has to rely on the fact that there would be awesome people around (such as you!) who would act if they saw someone in danger/har

I once really offended someone when I answered honestly to the theoretical scenario of jumping in front of a vehicle to save someone. Sure, in an ideal world I'd sacrifice myself for another but in reality... It would be tragic for the victim but wouldn't my death also be tragic? I get one life, I want to live it.

as a former high school debate kid, a current uni student in polisci and sociology, and an interested stats lover, this podcast was MADE FOR ME. thank you cristine and ben 🥰

I think the mona lisa example is interesting because I think most people would pretty easily agree to save the people, but in a real life setting where people have a choice between allocating money to big museums like the louvre or giving aide to people who need it, it seems to be a different story

Heres one- would you pull the lever if it destroyed all the tea in the world, but if you didn't it would destroy all the oats is the world?

Oooh the shoplifting conversation was interesting. Something I just read this past week was the LA Times doing an investigation in all the claims on the rise of looting in last years – the journalist concluded that companies are VASTLY exaggerating after the BLM protests, and there's been no increase in shoplifting at all recently. Also, let's not forget that the #1 form of theft in society is from these same companies taking advantage of, underpaying, and skirting laws to the detriment of their employees. Ben's right – in a functioning society where the poorest are protected from starvation and picking yourself up by the bootstraps is a viable way to survive shoplifting would be cheating the system and should be shunned, but I've rarely heard of someone shoplifting for fun. Opens a good discussion about these things, morally especially 😁

More trolley problems please! If not only because Christine looks so happy but also because I love when y’all talk philosophy ❤

If a lobster is in anyway sentient I imagine it's a fairly horrifying existence

Law student here. In the US, in most states a bystander cannot be held liable for not helping someone in danger. They can only be held liable if they started helping and then did not follow through or did not make sure someone took over in helping the person. They can be held liable however if they were the one who created the danger that harmed the person.

Ahhh yes, the next one should be viewer submitted cases. I like the tea vs oats one I saw 😂

To be fair there are many examples of people doing things like rushing into a burning building to save people and they end up sying themselves in the process but have saved many other people. There are definitely people who would sacrifice themselves if they could save others

YES please, do more of these! I love the conversation and the internal conversation it inspires in me.

In regards to the shoplifting if it's essentials like bread, baby formula etc I would never intervene cuz I don't know if they do it because they want to have to