The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

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Published 2023-08-24

Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:
• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD
• The various flavors of the JTBD framework
• Best practices for implementing the framework
• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers
• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD
• When not to use it

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Find the transcript at: www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-b…

Where to find Bob Moesta:
• Twitter/X: twitter.com/bmoesta
• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/
• Website: www.therewiredgroup.com/
• Podcast: pca.st/gg6goo1n

Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com/
• Twitter/X: twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Bob’s background
(04:04) What is the Jobs To Be Done framework
(07:29) Struggling moments and demand
(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process
(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion
(16:52) The six phases of the buying process
(18:30) The JTBD interview process
(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing
(22:02) Why people switch companies
(27:18) JTBD interviewing
(30:07) Discussion guides
(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product
(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework
(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change
(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”
(40:15) Examples of companies with broad adoption of JTBD
(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD
(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory
(51:05) When not to use JTBD
(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework
(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD
(58:07) Takeaways
(59:07) Lightning round

Referenced:
• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/
• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor
• Southern New Hampshire University: degrees.snhu.edu/
• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/
• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Pro…
• Autobooks: www.autobooks.co/
• Intercom: www.intercom.com/
• Zendesk: www.zendesk.com/
• HubSpot: www.hubspot.com/
• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/
• Y Combinator: www.ycombinator.com/
• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/
• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-…
• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
• Basecamp: basecamp.com/
• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimis…
• Genichi Taguchi: www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/
• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/
• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-insti…
• Shape Up: basecamp.com/shapeup
• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Emb…
• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now
• Oppenheimer: www.oppenheimermovie.com/
• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=…
• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/
• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/

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All Comments (21)

@abdurrahmanhalis 8 months ago

This was pure gold.

Based on Bob's "they said this but they did that" principle, let me make a case about JTBD:

They might call it "Jobs to be done" but it's actually "archeology of irrational human pivots".

I have already downloaded this episode to listen without connection whenever I need. One of the best, thank you Lenny and Bob.
@clementelacerda563 8 months ago

Lenny, this is one of your top videos. The amount of insights and thoughtful ideas surpassed every expectation I had. Lauryn Isford's episode was my favorite so far but I think this one tops it.
@jl6523 8 months ago

This guy is a legend. He helped us transform our business!!!!
@tabianamoto 8 months ago

Thank you beyond measure for interviewing this brilliant man - I learned of JTBD in 2020 and am returning to it now before I take another step into investing in my business. GREAT Interview~
@user-dj9qm9nb9q 8 months ago

This was such an insightful podcast on so many levels! I was listening while cleaning - and had to stop to take notes! I’ll be resharing this one
@mgracias13 8 months ago

Great insight into the JTDB framework and really understanding it's about the context of where customers are in their process. When Bob started diagraming the forces need to get a person from an old product to a new product, it reminded me of Ash Maury’s latest edition of Running Lean where he goes into a similar model around switching triggers. Would be great to see him on here, if you haven’t interviewed him before.
@Drackomass 8 months ago

I'll keep coming back to this episode.
@Z2B2plus 8 months ago

I love the Shinola Spartan clock, Robert, and thank you Lenny - I hope all's well!
@sharatmarar 7 months ago

Thanks for getting him on your podcast Lenny..pure gold.
@digihippy 8 months ago

This is just stellar. One the very very best episodes
@eunicesimi3452 5 months ago

Thanks for this video. This reminds me of the job mapping methodology I used I the early 2000s. I would sit with a client and develop a diagram of what the user must do, what they actually do, who expects these things to be done, and who benefits from the job.
@dvsundarraj 8 months ago

Wow, totally amazing insights on JTBD. Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation, Bob and Lenny
@Crazybushful 8 months ago

Amazing episode and amazing guest. Thank you both for this.
@shibly95 8 months ago

What an amazing session. Pure gold ❤
@nk91able 7 months ago

What you are selling is not what people want to buy; Demand led sales - these words will be with me for a long time
@vichussk 7 months ago

What a fantastic conversation. So much clarity. 4 pages of notes. Might be the best video on your podcast.
@kiarahepburn138 7 months ago

Amazing Interview, Lenny! Your podcast never disappoints, and Bob shares so many gems in this one.
@riteshkumardce 14 days ago

Wow! just wow!

YouTube is a better teacher because of such podcasts!

Bob is great and lenny you are amazing! :)

Litreally took notes... 😇
@vivienprice 7 months ago

Awesome interview Bob and Lenny! This is essential listening. Clear, energizing, inspiring.
@JamesRoloff 7 months ago

Bob is awesome. Great interview!